A player progression mechanic

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A player progression mechanic

Shadowmote 01 Jun 2010 16:30

While reading through one of the blogs, I saw a post about a mechanic for further player progression. It suggested the following house rule:

Upon reaching a new level, a Fighting Man, Magic User or Cleric may re-roll their Strength, Intelligence or Charisma, respectively. If the new roll is greater than the previous, increase the ability to the new amount. Demi-humans and other classes gain no benefit from this rule, because they are not main characters.

link to the original

I kind of like the idea, but would propose a more nerfed and balanced version:
As above, but
(1) for all characters' prime requisites, with no discrimination against demi-humans
(1.1) in the case of dual requisites, such as the elf, choose and roll one, only.
(2) if the roll succeeds, the stat is only raised by one

Thoughts?

Re: A player progression mechanic

PeteC 01 Jun 2010 17:08

That is a good rule, as it gives mediocre statted dudes hope.

The only con I can think of is that it will make the PCs more uniform as they go up in level, and one of the things stats do is make them different, which is one of the fun things about pre-point buy stats in D&D.

Re: A player progression mechanic

Shadowmote 01 Jun 2010 19:22

Well, as to the con:

1) It would only affect one stat in most cases (all the other variation would remain unchanged)

2) It would require a success to affect it

3) If we go with nerfed version, then it's highly likely that the variation stays for quite a number of levels
eg, with a stat of 10, a 4th level PC could expect
12.5% Stat 10
37.5% Stat 11
37.5% Stat 12
12.5% Stat 13

if you were always rolling against 10, however, since it gets progressively harder to achieve, it looks roughly like:
12.5% Stat 10
59.39% Stat 11
23.25% Stat 12
4.86% Stat 13

All that said, it does have strategic affect on a min-max gamer who moves stats around; if the have mediocre requisite stat, then it's likely a good strategy to turn it into one below mediocre for a -1 mod and move those points into another stat, since they'd be in a slightly better position overall (in the case where the change would increase a mod for the non requisite stat)

Re: A player progression mechanic

johnstone 01 Jun 2010 19:34

You're basically suggesting CoC progression for the prime-requisite, instead of the Swords of Minaria OP's straight re-roll.

I think it's weird that they don't let demi-humans advance in the original idea, since elves are supposed to be more bad-ass than humans in all ways except for bearded-ness.

In a game with a lot of levels, I like the CoC approach. In a game with fewer levels, I like the idea that you just get a +1 every level to put wherever you want.

In the Basic rulebook, it says it is possible to start with a gimped character, but get better with time. If your stats never go up, that's sort-of true (HP), but you're still inept whenever that stat affects the roll.

Re: A player progression mechanic

cr0m 01 Jun 2010 22:45

Haha. You guys think that having better stats matters.

---

Chris
Vancouver Red Box: a site for old school D&D

Re: A player progression mechanic

johnstone 02 Jun 2010 00:21

Haha. You never saw Warthog wield a +2 spear!

Re: A player progression mechanic

Shadowmote 02 Jun 2010 00:50

Alright, you all heard cr0m, stats don't matter in his game; feel free to play elves with 18 in every stat.

Seriously though, the issue isn't whether stats matter, it's how they matter.

Of course, a DM can always craft encounters to the party, or they can ignore the folly and foolishness of low level parties; regardless, it's always about contrast and context.

However, for me, if playing well-crafted progression games in the past they matter in a number of ways

1) It gives the Player a feeling of fundamentally improving
2) It provides a feeling of ownership over their character
3) It brings about an interesting change to play style and to dungeon design: imagine how a dungeon might be changed when a party includes someone who rarely if ever fails to break through doors, a person who can make friends with a majority of the sentient denizens of the dungeons, and a person who only has a 20% chance of falling victim to poison or paralysis.

Granted, stats are certainly not the end all be all, and the adventurers will still have to be very cagey, but the challenges that they face will undoubtedly change in nature.

Personally, I like Jon's idea of a +1, player's choice with leveling.

Re: A player progression mechanic

PeteC 02 Jun 2010 02:29

Haha. You never saw Warthog wield a +2 spear!

…and never will! *cry*

Re: A player progression mechanic

cr0m 03 Jun 2010 06:42

Dev, I was being tongue in cheek, but you brought up something that I should probably mention now that there are several DMs and the setting is no longer purely my baby.

When I started Black Peaks, it was with the intent of running a pure sandbox game and generated dungeons with no regard for party composition or power. So the main challenge of the game was exploration. Figuring out where the loot is, who is guarding it, and how to fight them in such a way that you have the most advantage.

One of the things I liked about Red Box, besides the nostalgia factor and the light rules, was how little min/maxing mattered compared to good exploration and intelligence gathering.

That might be changing because I'm not running most of the games or designing most of the dungeons any more. And that's okay. Personally, I doubt that having all 18s matters as much as which treasure tables the DM is using. The 100,000gp gem that johnstone put in Quasqueton has been by far the biggest power boost of the entire campaign.

Anyway, if you guys want to try stat boosts, let's go for it. Anything that helps people enjoy their characters and the game more. Maybe we should start a thread to brainstorm other improvements and tweaks we could try. I'd love to interact with the setting a little more, by founding organizations, taking on NPCs, getting political, etc.

---

Chris
Vancouver Red Box: a site for old school D&D

Re: A player progression mechanic

Shadowmote 03 Jun 2010 08:24

Sorry if my earlier post read as critical, rather than constructive.

Overall, I agree with your goals; if it were just about dicing off to resolve conflicts/challenges, it'd be completely uninteresting (to me).

That said, whenever I meet with a system of rules/mechanics, I enjoy the exercise of thinking of (and discussing) ways in which changes could improve the experience without going down the rabbit hole of infinite depth/verisimilitude, and losing the character/spirit which attracted me to the original. As you must, cr0m, or you wouldn't have suggested splintering shields, right?

I think that an enjoyable, largely intuitive, model that promotes careful/creative planning/logistics is still the common goal.

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